Hello everyone… and welcome to the Anti Porn Men Project.
In case you haven’t checked out the ‘About’ page yet…
The AntiPornMenProject aims to provide an online space for (mainly) men to write about and discuss anti-porn issues, providing others who are perhaps only just arriving at anti-porn thoughts a place to read, ask questions and feel part of a wider movement. We also hope to effectively provide and sign-post anti-porn resources and news articles concerning pornography. We hope this website will be used as a place to find opinions and resources for those who are genuinely interested in respectful engagment and -we hope- adoption of an anti-porn attitude.
It is the general opinion of those involved in the AntiPornMenProject that pornography is one of the most important social issues that we face in tackling both violence against women and wider gender inequality, as well as an important personal issue in the personal lives and relationships of many people. It is for these reasons -and not out of any conservative or religious sentiments- that the AntiPornMenProject is anti-porn. Our mission is to help develop a wider knowledge and recognition of the harms of pornography. We hope this will help bring about a greater level of public questioning of pornography.
What we are/hope to be
- Pro-sex. One of the reasons why we are anti-porn is because we are pro-sex. Porn is not sex, but in fact can play a very restrictive and damaging role in peoples sex lives and the forming of people’s sexuality.
- A source and platform for people who wish to speak about and explore anti-porn arguments and views.
What we are not/hope not to be
- Anti-sex. One of the reasons why we are anti-porn is because we are pro-sex. Porn is not sex, but in fact can play a very restrictive and damaging role in people’s sex lives and the forming of people’s sexuality.
- A place to debate with organised or committed pro-porn activists.
What we mean when we say ‘Pornography’
It’s probably useful if we attempt to clarify a little what exactly it is we mean by ‘pornography’.
If you look, you’ll see there is a variety of different definitions of pornography. The ‘porn’ in the ‘Anti Porn Men Project’ is -generally speaking- sexually explicit material that is characterised in some way by cruelty, humiliation, or degredation of women. This kind of material constitutes the vast majority of so-called ‘mainstream pornography’. A definition that we find useful is that pornography is that which ‘sexualizes hierarchy, objectification, submission, and violence’ (Andrea Dworkin).
Content which possibly lies outside the above characterisation but that nevertheless can be referred to as pornographic is content that reduces women to objects, prioritises male demands and pleasure, and implies female pleasure is about pleasing men.
This post has been slightly edited since it was first posted
No related posts.
If you’re interested in writing on the AntiPornMenProject website please contact us via the form on the ‘Contact’ page stating a little about yourself and why you would like to contribute.
It’s not absolutely necessary for you to have completely made up your mind as to your stance regarding porn, as long as you can write about an area or aspect of pornography that you think is wrong, troublesome, dangerous, demeaning, exploitative, violent etc. Again, if you’d like to contribute, email us via the ‘contact’ page.
I’m really impressed with this; it’s great to see men getting involved in something that’s usually a feminist issue. I hope you have great success with the project!
It is difficult to communicate the response this site has created, I was wary in the first instance as there are so many examples of sites which purport to be anti-porn, but are simply a cover for more of the same brutalising misogyny I face every day.
I now recognise this is a site with real intention and integrity. The writer who describes the importance of admitting to having been a user of porn and the consequences of that action finally demonstrates a maturity that I had honestly lost hope that any man could achieve.
Women will only be safe from debasement at the hands of some of the other 50% of the population when the abuser admits his actions and recognises the consequences of those actions. In other words when the men who use this stuff take responsibility for themselves and what they do.
Thank you. This gives me hope, especially for the future of my son’s life as an adult male. I hope sites like this will allow him to be a decent human being who does not need to be an abuser in order to be a ‘man’.
Good luck and thank you again.
Thank you both for your positive responses to our site. Please feel free to come back and leave comments or thoughts for discussion at any time.
The second sentence seems to me to be a gross exaggeration at best, the majority of mainstream pornography is unconcerned with cruelty, humiliation or degradation.
This makes it unclear what you are actually against, is it the niche material that actually does depend on cruelty etc, or much more than that? And if the latter then why not state this honestly?
Thank you for your comment / question with regards to the contents of mainstream pornography. An article I have found helpful is the following:
http://www.zcommunications.org/sexuality-masculinity-and-mens-choices-by-robert-jensen
Personally I feel that our quote of Andrea Dworkin’s definitin of pornography as material that ‘sexualizes hierarchy, objectification, submission, and violence’ quite clearly states that we are not only concerned with a narrow definition of pornography (e.g. extremely cruel niche material). I am sorry if you feel this info on our “About” page is unclear or misleading.
If you use the traditional definition of pornography (traditional, not the Greek original) then many things are porn — such as everything in the mainstream. If we use Dworkin’s definition, then much of what is called porn today ceases to be porn. It is left in limbo and without a word for it.
Here’s the issue — what we call non-degrading, non-submissive, non-cruel porn, others, perhaps you, will still put it under Dworkin’s definition. While ‘we’ identify parts of porn that are based on cruelty, etc., naming all porn by this standard undercuts the niche stuff that intentionally carries out such a depiction. So your — Dworkin’s — definition seems initially to be referring to cruel, submission porn, but it actually refers to all porn which she found degrading innately (such as in her book Intercourse).
This generalization can be utterly perplexing to those such as myself and Karen. For us, you can make caring porn, equality porn, political porn, feminist porn, anti-feminist porn, capitalist porn, communist porn, cruel porn, loving porn, etc.. This is the traditional definition at work, wherein porn is merely a sexually explicit representation, typically intended to arouse. So for us, you’re referring to a niche, a sub-category, and saying that the sub-category is innate to the master category/genre, and not just the sub-category.
This is why she has accused you on a narrow definition of porn. “Sexually explicit materials intended to arouse” is extremely general, while Dworkin’s definition is extremely specific, and excludes vast amounts that “we” still say belongs rightfully to the category of ‘porn’ . Please understand that the feminist definition of pornography is only 40ish years old, getting popular less than 30 years ago. In the 19th century a definition came about, and to this day it is still the one used by most people who utter the word “pornography”. To redefine porn, one needs an extensive explanation as to why a redefinition is warranted, especially if it is so specific.
Prince Thrash,
In 2010 when your average man or woman ‘utters the word porn’, they are referring to what you get if you google the word ‘porn’ on your computer. They are not conscious of a 19th century definition of the word. Internet pornography can be taken to be pornography because it tells us it is pornography. Therefore, and considering the content we then find, I object to pornography because of the the way pornography, in 2010, defines itself. We needn’t trouble ourselves too much with our definition. I can let pornography speak for itself. And I think we all know what I mean. Don’t worry too much about what’s on our ‘About’ page. We may change it word for word tomorrow, but we’ll still have the same voice.
I thought you worked with Dworkin’s definition? That is not pornography defining itself, that’s an external definition. If porn defined itself as you do, titles would look like this:
“Degraded Objects volume 9″
“Against Our Will part 17″
“Please Let Me Go, The Trilogy”
“Victim-Conqueror Erotic Dichotomy Orgy”
“Torture in A Minor”
“Patriarch-Enemy: The Fempocalypse”
“Eroticized Female Subordination Under Male Supremacy — The Making Of”
Instead we get:
“Buffy the Vampire Layer” (real)
“Beaverjuice” (real)
“The Fresh Tits of Bel-Air” (real)
People are, overwhelmingly, conscious of the 19th century definition of the word, being (paraphrased) “sexually explicit representations for the purpose of arousal”. Also known as the most common definition of porn in public use today. Eliminate domination, submission, and everything Dworkin (or Steinem, Itzin, Brownmiller, etc) said about it, and as long as its a “sexually explicit representation for the purpose of arousal”, it’s still porn.
You’re right that this isn’t really about the word. It’s about the interpretation and categorization of the material that is placed under the word as it is defined — in other words, the referent of the word. If you see a sex scene in three basic positions with no prominent patriarchal themes, do you still let it fall under Dworkin’s definition? Or do you see these themes where I do not? And with Harlequin, which is degrading to both men and women, would you put this under the category of porn because it matches the requirements? And if the most vile depiction titles itself “Female equality”, does this mean it is? And when you see a depiction of forced, violent sex, would you really put that in the same category as “Lonely housewife seduces Pizza Boy”?
How about this. I’ll take a picture of one page of youporn.com videos, with all the titles visible. I will randomly select the page. I will send it to you. You look at the titles (self-identification, yes?) and you circle which clip titles are indicative of Dworkin’s definition. For the remaining clips that you do not circle, we will email youporn.com and have them take them down, as clearly(?) they are not porn. While I disagree that a clip entitled “Young amateur couple in the shower” is not porn, I suppose you are free to use screen-captures from it for the company Christmas card.
Using primary materials is good, yes? And using a random page of youporn.com is clearly a decent sampling, rather than cherry picking the most vile depictions and using them to represent the mainstream (see: ’3 Seconds of Pornography’). Let the empiricism begin! Kinda.
Prince Thrash. I Think you’ve just done your own cherry-picking there! I think it’s true that I see the themes of male hierarchy, submission, objectification and violence where you do not, which is perhaps part of the problem. I presume you brought up Youporn as one of the mildest and widely used sites of internet pornography. Youporn is one of a couple of sites that turned me against pornography precisely because it fits Dworkin’s description so well. It wasn’t BDSM or Bestiality sites that did it. I wish she wasn’t right, but I’m prepared to admit when I’m wrong. Sweet titled clips of a couple having sex end up with him ejaculating over her face, for example. This is degrading and submissive. That is not arguable, any more than being spat on is unarguably degrading. As you’ve said yourself, we need that degradation and humiliation in order to enjoy pornography. Why then attempt to argue that you do not see these themes? Which is it to be? I loved the moment in Simon Stephens’ play Pornography when the elderly porn watching widow says: ‘Every trailer follows a genre convention. There’s a moment at the end of every film, where the girl is waiting for the boy to come. Kneeling below him. Looking up. She asks him to come on her face. And at that moment she looks tired and worn out and the good years, when the work was flying in have taken their toll. And you do kind of think’. And onto other such sites. Why does Pornhub have one category called ‘Female Friendly’ amongst endless others such as Bukkake (do you know from where that originates?), Bondage (straight to extremely violent BDSM sites), endless insulting racist categories, Teen, Anal, Gang Bang, Big Tits, UpSkirt. The Interview ones are the worst of all, when nothing much happens but she looks scared. Doesn’t that say it all? And when you look at what is ‘female friendly’, it’s almost entirely lesbian clips, a whole sexuality reduced to a fetish for morons like me.
I am very pleased with this project. It is important that men join the war on porn. I will put it around my university and do as much publicity as I can.
Thanks
Four things:-
- I don’t think it’s possible to distinguish once for all between the ‘erotic’ and the ‘pornographic.’ Somebody once said that pornography is erotica you don’t like and erotica is pornography you do …
- Much – not all – anti-porn writing unproblematically conflates fantasy and reality. Yet much fantasy derives its potency from that fact that it isn’t ‘real’; people get off on fantasising about doing things/having things done to them that they would never wish for in real life.
- Porn can have a perverse appeal, to which I am far from insensitive, because of its degraded/abject quality, especially in a sexually uptight society such as ours still in many ways is. This goes back beyond the invention of the Net – to the Marquis de Sade at least.
- My main issue with porn is the treatment and exploitation of the performers – increasingly an issue in the epoch of globalisation. Where though will that leave us when computer-generated imagery, maybe not depicting real human beings at all, becomes easier to produce?
Pornography as it now stands however is the real life acting out of violent and degrading fantasies men have about women and that is not acceptable.
I do think your question you pose
“Where though will that leave us when computer-generated imagery, maybe not depicting real human beings at all, becomes easier to produce?”
is a very interesting one but I am not inclined to agree with the point you are aiming for. If pornography was to be produced as it is now in anime, in computer generated form without harming any real life being in the production I would still be against it. The simple fact being is that the images would still mainly be about humiliating, degrading and abusing women for men’s pleasure. I would still consider this to be harmful and would expect it to have an influence on how boys and men perceive women and what they expect from them sexually.
Excellent. A really good project. Thank god someone has got it together on the men against porn front.
Porn is inherently masculine which is the reason why it has manifested itself in the way it has. It is directly connected to male fantasies and desires. Is it not better to have these situations going on in controlled conditions as banning porn is not going to stop male urges and instinct?
The question you asked is often asked by people, be it in pornography or prostitution debates. Firstly I do no think it is true that either exist because of men’s biological make-up. They are manifestations of socialisation in a male deominated (patriarchal) world.
In pornography and prostitution debates the following is often heard:
“Is it not safer for women for it to be legal?”
“Pornography / prostitution has been around forever, it is not going to stop, because that is the way men are.”
I have included prostitution in my response as questions, views and responses are often very similar to those expressed in pornography debates and because I can provide you with a good practical example regarding prostitution. The same is not true for pornography as no country has ever tried to blanket-ban pornography.
Let us have a look at Sweden, who in 1999 passed groundbreaking legislation that criminalized the buyer of sexual services. In july 2010 the Swedish government published an evaluation of the law’s first ten years. The findings are strikingly positive:
* street prostitution has been cut in half; there is no evidence that the reduction in street prostitution has led to an increase in prostitution elsewhere, whether indoors or on the Internet
* fewer men state that they purchase sexual services
* the ban has had a chilling effect on traffickers who find Sweden an unattractive market to sell women and children for sex
I know some people will object the comparison I make here and that it is bound to attract criticism from certain readers. I think it is a good example though that pornography and prostitution are not inherent in men, but that they have been socialized into accepting and using it. It also shows that it is possible to have effective measures in reducing harm done by men to the women in the sex industry by amending the current legal situation.
Thank you, thank you, grown-up men! As a Mum of two boys and a girl, and as a wife, I’m so glad you’ve done this. I know there are so many men who feel this way but haven’t been able to talk about it before. I’m confident you’re making a great contribution to a better relationship between men and women in the future. All the best to you.
You have the monopoly on useful information-aren’t monooplies illegal?
I’ve just heard about the project through your interview on woman’s hour – I was impressed by how Matt countered the pro-porn arguments of the other interviewee. It is so encouraging that you have founded this project – it gives me hope for the future that young men are prepared to stand up and speak out against porn and the objectification of women. I’m a counsellor and counsel young people, as well as adults, and am frequently disturbed by the things they tell me about young men and young women’s attitudes / beliefs about sex and sexuality, and the things that go on in and outside of school / college. The easy accessibility of porn on the internet is definitely influencing young people’s ideas / understanding and views of sex and their own sexuality in a negative way. (Things were bad enough when I was in my teens / 20s and that was some time before the advent of internet porn).
Best of luck with the site and the project!
I’ve just been listening to Matt’s articulate exposition on Radio 4′s women hour, and immediately wanted to join up.
Like a lot of young men, I’ve been ‘doing’ pornography for most of my adult life; generally what would be regarded as relatively soft-core material, with the inevitable decline into more explicit stuff over the last few. I admit I’m ashamed of that fact, and hope I have found a forum which can start to address the complex antipathy that comes with any decent individual’s response to porn.
If there was one thing I would have loved to have been stated more clearly with Jenni Murray, it would have been this; sex is a wonderful, joyful experience first and foremost – presumably, that’s why we pursue it with the relentless energy we do. Pornography caters to the mere appetite of the act – it’s the equivalent of sexual fast food, all about the experience and none of the content.
I’m recently married. I can only hope that I can continue having a beautiful, intense sexual relationship with the wonderful woman I’ve chosen to spend my life with, without the myriad nameless faces of yesteryear intruding on the times we have together.
The very best of luck with this project.
This reminds me of a quote from something I’ve read denouncing pornography. Unfortunately I can’t think of it right now otherwise I would link it.
In essence, the writer described how, by campaigning against pornography, she was accused of being “anti-sex”. However if she had said that eating McDonalds is bad for you nobody would accuse her of being “anti-food”.
I’m really glad that this project has been set up. Often, if you talk about women’s rights or other supposedly feminist issues, other men accuse you of being a girl, or a feminist, or whatever they can to try to justify their actions. By no means am I saying that being a feminist is bad. However in calling you these things, other people clearly mean to imply that they are Bad Things.
Recently I told my brothers that promiscuity is an actual Bad Thing, be it for men or women. My problem was that they held such hypocritical views towards it (i.e. women that engage in multiple sexual relationships are slags, whereas men simply become legends). In part I believe that such attitudes derive from pornography and its increasing grip upon society, be it through lad’s mags, advertising or otherwise. For my troubles I was derided, as though I was the one with immoral or troubling beliefs.
I can’t wait to read more about this and I hope that other men come across it and break the hypnotic spell that pornography seems to have cast.
I just heard about your project on R4 and wanted to say how much it meant to me as a woman to know that there are men who don’t think that porn is harmless, and care enough to make a stand against it. Thank you so much.
Congratulations on starting a forum to address a subject worthy of exploration. However I am confused about how you are going to achieve this. Your “about” pages says this site is…
“A source and platform for people who wish to speak about and explore anti-porn arguments and views”
and then it says…
“The Project hopes to join those voices speaking against pornography and therefore does not wish to engage in online debate with organised pro-porn activists or organisations”
How can people explore arguments and views without discussing and debating them? I am certainly anti some of the things you describe as “porn” but I am quite possibly not anti other things that you might put in the “porn” definition. We’ll never know, however, if I (and everyone else) is not able to explore, debate and challenge ideas and assertions. Without such debate, aren’t you going to end up with a simplistic and censored “me too” site that ultimately carries no significant weight in the fight against those things about porn that are bad?
I’m not aiming to diss your site, I don’t work for any part of the porn industry, I don’t belong to any pressure groups of any sort (porn or otherwise) and I do not consider myself to be a “pro-porn activist” or an activist of any sort. But I (and I imagine many others) have a keen interest in testing and exploring arguments where I think they may be muddling and mixing up different things.
So, AntiPornMenProject, can we have a discussion about pros and cons, or can’t we?
Best wishes
You ask:
“How can people explore arguments and views without discussing and debating them?”
in relation to our statement that we do not “wish to engage in online debate with organised pro-porn activists or organisations”
I know what you are saying regarding censorship, but you can be assured that we are not unwilling to engage in debate with people who have differing views from ours. It becomes different however when posts are of such a nature that they attack a person directly, might be offensive to visitors or are unempathetic simplifications of what is discussed here.
Lastly I also want to point out the danger of ending up in circular and destructive discussions with anti-pornography activists or organisations if we were to allow everyone to comment freely on this site. In the end this site is not meant as a platform for pro-pornography activists, but intended as a positive space where men (and women) should be able to openly and honestly explore anti-porn views. Anti-pornography activists and organisations have plenty of platforms discuss their views (including an estimated 370 million pornographic websites).
I have just listened to your debate on radio 4. I’ve been increasingly ambivalent in my feelings about pornography of late, and am pleased there is a forum for men to discuss this. It is easy to agree that pornography with aggressive content, posturing, language etc. is on the rise, and an alarming development.
Very interesting though, was your appraisal of ‘lads mags’. I’m thinking Nuts and Zoo in particular here. I don’t actually buy these magazines (I listen to Women’s Hour, for Christ Sake), but I don’t suppose I would have considered them a particular concern either. But you made a really interesting point about how the adverts in the back of these mags link them directly with prostitution, and other more obvious areas of objectification and exploitation.
I don’t have much more to say right now, other than that this forum really is food for thought. I will aim to contribute an article in the near future.
Good luck.
It is fitting that I switched on Radio 4 this morning to find out about the Anti Porn Men Project. Today is my first day as an officially single women in 3 years, because pornography destroyed my relationship with my partner.
I found out about his addiction six months into our relationship. I was shocked by the sheer number of sites he visited each day. It really hurt me. When he realised how much it upset me, he said he would stop and to his credit, he did, at least whilst I was around. I too made an effort to be more sexually appealing to him with sexy underwear etc. We enjoyed a healthy sex life for a while. However, I didn’t actually enjoy it that much if I’m honest. It felt empty and impersonal. It seemed, pornography was still effecting our relationship as I realised a lot of the time he was just asking me to mimic the things he had seen online. I don’t mind playful experimental sex now and again with someone I trust, but not every time. He always, always referred to our intimacy as “F***king” yet he swore blind he loved and cherished me. Sex was something that was done to me, or something I did to him. I ended up resenting him and this was the underlying cause of many, many arguments. He then felt nervous about asking me for sex and reverted to using pornography excessively. This time weird stuff that made me feel very uncomfortable. I ended the relationship. Of course, there were other reasons too, but pornography and our different attitudes towards it, was a major contributing factor.
It may be a coincidence but if I compare this to my relationship with a pre-internet boyfriend I always felt with him, he was having sex with me, the sexual person and the person inside. It wasn’t just about “getting off” but about the intimacy and enjoyment shared between us. I am distrubed by sites on the internet that encourage young people to send in explicit and humilating pictures of their ex girlfreinds in revenge. I don’t think pornography should be banned completely, but I feel it should be better regulated. I think it is good that men are talking about it and realising that pornography can be damaging to themselves and to their relationships.
Thank you for your contribution Aby. I am sorry to hear about your painful experience surrounding pornography regarding a former partner and think it is extremely courageous to speak out about it on a website run by men.
Unfortunately what you descibe sounds too familiar to me, but from the male perspective. Whilst watching pornography and for some time after quitting, I did find it hard to engage in intimate intercourse with the person I love.
Now I see that there is a huge impact of pornography on the way men (and I as well) perceive sex and how they want to act it out. Stopping watching pornography does not change that from one second to the next. It takes a lot of work. Particularly as most men start watching pornography in their early teens. One of the main problems for men I think is that pornography has a very narrow view of what it means to be masculine in a sexual relationship and how this portrayal of masculinity affects their relationship with their partners and womankind.
This is so important. Its great that men are taking a lead in this. Thank you for setting this up.
I’m so glad this exists, I think it’s brilliant that men are starting to recognise the harm that pornography causes.
I wish I knew men like you!!
I hope this site focuses the downsides of porn for men. There is plenty written about women, but rarely talked about is the damage done to men. For example, porn addicted men can find it difficult to establish relationships with (real) women – this is incredibly damaging as it will isolate men in the community, which creates all sorts of other knock on effects – loneliness etc.. porn is an insidious thing with many side effects for men that are rarely talked about or discounted.
A good point Steve and I completely agree with you, although I do think the harm done to women through pornography os more profound.
I am sure there will be some discussion of the harm of porn for men. It sounds like it is something you have experience of, so I’d like to invite you to contact us to contribute to our blog. In that way you could share your view and make sure that this issue, which seems important to you is featured in the discussion.
I think this is an interesting project. As a pro-sex feminist and anti-censorship activist, I am generally pro-porn, but I think there is a lot of important analysis to be done. I would like to gather perspectives, and I hope to be a respectful listener. I have two questions for readers of this site
1) How do you feel about consensual BDSM?
2) What are your goals when it comes to porn? Are you seeking only to discuss and understand it or do you have a broader policy agenda? Again, I am just seeking to understand what you’re trying to do here; I’m not trying to start an argument.
Clarisse, thank you for your interest in this site and your comment. I’d like to answer your second question first, although I am afraid I have no conclusive answer to it. The truth is that this project has only been going for a week and it is hard to say whhere it will take us. For the moment we hope to create a platform for people to discuss and explore anti-porn views and thoughts. It might well be that this changes over time, but we have not discussed any future goals in detail yet.
Your first question on (in this case my) feelings on BDSM, I think this cannot by me in a general way for all involved in the anti-porn men project. Personally I have no knowledge of or experience with BDSM, so I do not feel qualified to give a comprehensive answer on the subject. Especially not since this blog is for discussions on pornography rather than sexual practices. It would not seem quite right to me to discuss or approve / disapprove people’s sexual preferences in detail here.
If not porn, then what? How do you fill the void? Maybe it is easy for someone who has never been into porn to abstain from it, but I’ve been watching it since I was 16, and trying to stop for me is a whole different story. I don’t want to hear about the degradation of women! It is irrelevant to the need I feel – which pornography is exceedingly good at satisfying. If I’m not in a relationship, then what else can I do? If anyone knows of someone who has written on this or someplace that this perspective has been discussed, please pass it along.
I think most people who are sucked into watching pornography do not want to hear about the degradation of women. I didn’t see it when I was watching it and when my partner started mentioning it to me I did not want to hear it.
Why?
Because it is extremely painful to start thinking about that what you are watching might actually be degrading to a whole class of people (in this case women). And I am not just talking about the women who perform in pornography. Many women feel uneasy, upset or even disgusted about their partner’s use of pornography because they feel it is degrading womankind.
The most logical answer to your question seems to me to try masturbation without pornography and see where that takes you.
Josh. Porn is the void! The degradation of women is not irrelevant to the need you feel – it is central to it. But as you say yourself it’s a ‘need’ you only ‘feel’. You won’t die if you don’t watch pornography! I don’t believe that porn is a substitute for a relationship in any way. What sort of a relationship do you expect to have when you do find someone? I don’t think it will much resemble anything you have watched in pornography. Abstaining from pornography is a struggle, and I think It’s good you’re thinking about the subject. Have a look at our resources page, and be reassured there are a lot of people around just like you. You may find you never needed pornography, that it held you back from experiencing intimacy with other people, and inhibited the exploration of your own sexuality.
Thank you guys. I was listening to Radio 4 this morning and could not believe my ears. Anti-porn project led by men? I thought only women and some Christian men were against pornography. I was pleased to find out that it is being led by people who have experienced it and not people who just have a view on it.
I was shocked at the age young boys watch pornography and I guess young girls too. The time wasted on watching this could be invested in fulfilling relationships and education. The harm it has on relationships is phenomenal from a woman’s point of view.
I am keen to see what men think and say the effects are on them. There is huge commercial success from this and the question I ask is this…
There is a market for it hence the variations in pornography, but why??
Is it that we are living in a quick fix society where we want things instantly? Have we as a society lost our morals?
It is degrading of women firstly as well as men. Thank you guys, job well started. Good luck.
I want to thank you all very much for the mostly positive feedback to our site. I am also glad so many of you took the time and found your way to us after hearing Matt on Woman’s Hour on Radio 4 yesterday afternoon.
If you missed it, you can listen to Jenni Murray’s interview featuring Matt again by clicking on the link below:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00tnb7v
I don’t think such material should be criminalised. If adult people are appearing in such material or watch such material do so out of their own free will then it is *their* business and not that of anyone else.
There is an argument to be made about protecting children, against exposure, but it should end right there I think. I certainly do not want to have other people’s choices legally imposed on me.
I find arguments of choice and free will very disturbing. If you choose to watch while other human beings are degraded and violated then you abuse your free will. And ultimately abuse of your privelege is what leads to its restriction, not what other people tell you to do. You have no right to indulge in the abuse of other individuals for your own pleasure, or to support the societal norms that tell us it’s ok. You don’t want others’ choices imposed on you, but it seems you are quite happy to impose yours on everyone else.
Besides all the arguments stacked against how ‘free’ the participation is in porn (even for consumers – many of whom admit it is an addiction which is anything but a free choice), the free will argument a red herring. Even if it were true, it focusses on the people who take part/use, while ignoring the rights of the rest of us that have to live with the consequences. My free will is infringed by a society which images women in this way. It affects the way I can form relationships, my freedom to walk the streets, and affects the way women are treated by men in many ways – in the home, the workplace, everywhere. Porn encourages the notion of male sexual entitlement and control, and chimes with the notion of the overarching right/need of men to discharge their sexual feelings. These notions are used regularly to explain rape and otehr sexual violence. Some societies view male sexuality as the total opposite – that it needs to be controlled in order to be healthy and satisfying. The notion that ‘men must have orgasms’ is a cultural construct, which unfortunately clashes with another common attitude – deep fear and loathing of femininity, which is ‘other’, and ‘lesser’, but infuriatingly, doesn’t always aqcuiesce in this need. Porn is one result of this mismatch, by manifesting this ‘need’ to orgasm in abuse of women rather than attempts to form relationships with them; rape is another; prostitution is another, child abuse, etc it’s not the ‘need’ to orgasm, but the need to be in control which drives porn and other sexual violation of women. Anyone with one hand and a lockable bathroom can have orgasms – you don’t need porn, unless you also need to visualise your sexual partner as weak, always available, of a certain physical type, who doesn;t refuse you, answer back, complain- ie porn is for men who can’t form relationships with real women.
I’ve just been directed here by Bristol’s anti patriarchy men’s group, and I’m feeling so heartened that so many men, are beginning to react against these things. Women have been struggling for years to survive in the face of abuse, violence and contempt of all kinds. So thankful that some men are starting to see that pornography damages them almost as much as the women who are used in its production, and that it damages us all in the way that sexual relationships and women’s (and men’s) sexuality ends up being defined.
But it’s unsurprising that there are still going to be apologists for this iniquitous industry, who will use any argument to excuse their own use of it.
Many thanks for this great reply Jan. I think you’ve done very well in putting one of the most disturbing aspects of pornography use into a couple of sentences words:
“If you choose to watch while other human beings are degraded and violated then you abuse your free will…You have no right to indulge in the abuse of other individuals for your own pleasure, or to support the societal norms that tell us it’s ok. You don’t want others’ choices imposed on you, but it seems you are quite happy to impose yours on everyone else.”
Thanks a lot for thiscontribution. It really means a lot to me, as it makes me feel someone else thinks the same way about pornography apologizers and so called, self-ascribed liberalists as I do.
I’m a little uneasy with Jan’s characterization of choice/free-will arguments as ‘disturbing’ – almost as if they were pathological or aberrant. They involve complex questions – of representation, of what does/does not constitute a ‘free choice,’ of possible censorship, of whether freedom of speech can meaningfully be said to exist (see Stanley Fish’s thought-provoking book There’s No Such Thing As Free Speech) – which may not be susceptible to clear-cut answers.
I’m well aware of the complexities involved in arguments of free will. The complexities are exactly why you can’t use them to justify porn use. You should have read my post properly – it’s the use of free will arguments to support abusive behaviour that is disturbing, not the notion free will itself. Although our characterisation of free will as ‘all good’ and desirable, is only a result of our privileged position in the west, and we are only able to live as we want because others suffer oppression to support our lifestyle.
Yes free will is complicated, and no-one has or should have total freedom to behave just as they choose. In a humane society we modify our free will where it is likely to harm others.
Complicated indeed! I’ve been working on a piece of writing one character in which is a porn user, and having completed my research have decided because of possible harm to others – not forgettingt myself … – not to go there again. I would certainly favour such websites having an ‘.xxx’ suffix as a minimal measure of control.
I came across this website by pure accident, I didn’t think I needed to read it because I wasn’t a person who watched pornography in the first place, but…………..I was wrong….this site is teaching me a powerful lesson, that I am a person,that I have value,and the importance of protecting and perserving a positive self-image…..I have already shared this site link to many on my facebook friends list…..also I’d like to say thank you to the guys who created this because you have helped in influencing many young men to NOT view women as objects…as a Mother I can protect my daughter from the dangers I can see, its nice to know you’re doing your part to save her from the dangers I don’t see…………
Questions of identification are I think paramount to the consumption of pornography – not irrelevant academic frills. To understand why it is consumed, it is important also to understand how.
My long-standing discontent with my own masculinity led me to wish to abject it, sometimes via a frantic and unavailing identification with the women in the images; I was never turned on by the idea of assuming/identifying with the masculine sexual role.
I now fortunately have found other ways of getting in touch with my ‘feminine’ side, but wonder if there are other consumers, past or present, whose identificatory mechanisms are/were as ‘queer’ as my own.
Thanks for this site which, new as it is, already offers a good deal of heartening and informative material!
I wish you all the best and will be checking it out regularly.
No matter how this site fares in the future, this demonstration that there are, after all, men in the world who do not revel in the dehumanisation of women is a life saver, nothing less.
Thank you for creating this site. As a young woman I feel very hopeful reading all the thoughtful comments. The idea that men have made this site makes me even more happy. Thanks again
It is a joy to see more men joining the struggle for freedom from damaging and restrictive gender roles, and understanding the nuances behind it. I will definitely pass this on to my boyfriend to let him know he is not alone!
No big rambling message. This is just to say thanks for setting this site up and thereby offering a space and a campaigning tool for those of us (men) who don’t wish to be lumped in with others of our gender who actively support or use this often revolting and socially corrosive industry.
Stuart
Such a great project! It’s great to know we are not alone trying to build a better world. For our daughters and the daughters of our daughters
For a healthy sexual life ….. any dog has a helthier sexual life (perhaps they dont watch tv, or pornnet, mean internet or buy magazines)then us.
Actually I would be offended if I was a dog and had to hear such pervets humans being called ‘dog’.
please can everyone simply remove and hide any daily sports they find in any shop they visit
wow it worked! I am new to the internet. I can now elaborate. I am disgusted at the hypocrisy of the co-op, claiming to be ethical but happily to profiting from selling the Daily Sport. I go into co-ops and remove this rag by placing it inside a broadsheet and then hiding it behind slow turnover stock elsewhere in the store. I then return broadsheet to shelf and walk out store. I have been doing this for a couple of years and so far have not been caught and anyway what are they going to do. PLEASE HELP BY FOLLOWING THE ABOVE IN YOUR PART OF THE COUNTRY
I just wanted to comment as a pro-feminist, social studies graduate who happens to also be a Christian, husband and Father of two daughters… and an occasional guilt ridden user of internet porn. There are some of us who are followers of Jesus (who himself had some tough things to say about how we look at women!)who are not anti-sex conservatives but pro-love and pro relationships that are based on mutuality and respect. I am happy that a site like this exists because whatever the reason for it the “Pornification” of our media is something which makes our society a less good one for both women and men.
Hi all – I turn over flesh magazines and so-called “news” papers all the time – people look at me like I’m mad, but I do not care! I find the whole objectification of women and assumtion on me really hard to take when it’s absolutely everywhere around us – from schools to the government and the world over. Glad the genders are all onboard, there’s a very long road ahead, but we’ll bring porn to it’s knees!
I turn over flesh magazines and so called “news” papers all the time – people look at me like I’m mad, but I do not care! I find the whole objectification of women and assumtion about men really hard to take when it’s absolutely everywhere around us – from schools to the government and the world over. Glad the genders are all onboard, there’s a very long road ahead, but we’ll bring porn to it’s knees!
I’m a woman and wife/mom. I have a daughter who’s a toddler at the moment. But I have to congratulate the guy that made this group. Good for you! I really hope that teenage boys and men out there start seeing questioning porn as empowerment to their gender and NOT a rant done by feminists and religious types. The anti-porn attitude has been dismissed because it’s largely been seen as taken over by feminists and religious types. But really porn controls and misleads men’s attitudes about their sexuality and dominates their masculinity by leading them on to believe that to be a normal guy when having sex they have to be like a porn star or the guy in the pornos.
I hope that us women that have learned about this group and have come here don’t detract or discourage, or probably what I’m saying is “intrude” on the men’s group here. I don’t want the guys here to feel crowded by women being here since it’s a group really for men’s discussions. But I really support this group and seeing the guys here who had founded this group has really impressed me. I really send my congrats to these guys. …And this group should succeed and broaden really because porn degrades men. And why? Because it hijacks men as a gender into believing it’s okay to watch the sexual use of a woman, that to be a normal guy these sex acts must be tried and must be a normal part of their sexual relationships (if they don’t have sex that’s done in porns, then they’re lacking and missing out???), and finally they’re hijacked into believing that they CAN’T masturbate without porn or live without it even when they’re in a sexual relationship with a woman. …See what I mean??? Porn dominates men’s sexuality and masculinity. So porn apologizers should come to see porn’s restrictions on men’s gender and the degradation of men’s ethics.
Thank you for your thoughtful and supportive comment Leiann. I think even though this group is mainly aimed at men, it is helpful for women to be included in the discussions. There is a lot we as men can learn from women’s experiences of our pornified world and the impact pornography use has on men’s attitudes, expectations and behavior towards women.
As a guy who has been struggling with an addiction to porn since I was 5 years old – yes, 5 – I am absolutely thrilled and delighted to hear about this site. I know only too well the terrible and lasting impact porn use can have on social and sexual functions and feel that the ‘freedom of expression’ and ‘it’s been around as long as sex’ arguments only cloud the issue of what has now become, in the age of the internet, nothing short of an epidemic. These issues need to be discussed openly without fear of ridicule or sanction and I thank you so much for setting up this forum. Porn is capitalism writ large in the field of sexuality and men should start to realise that, just as chocolate bars and junk food have no nutritional value whatsoever and are specifically designed to get us to over-indulge, so porn has no sexual value whatsoever and is specifically manufactured in order to keep us coming back for yet another unsatisfactory hit. And that’s before you get to the issues of abuse that underlie it. This website gives me hope that there is another way for men to react – and again, I thank you for creating it.
Phil
Whilst I have never viewed myself as a committed or organised defender of pornography, after publication of my book, ‘Flesh Trade: Tales from the UK Sexual Underground’, I was surprised to find myself cast into this position by the majority of reviewers.
This was unusual, not least because I had been critical of a large number of dynamics at play within the smut game, specifically the great lunge downwards into a shadowy area where accusations of misogyny within the US industry seemed well founded.
With hindsight however it would appear that any writer covering the sex industry who refuses to subscribe to the prevailing media wisdom that this is an industry defined by damaged souls and female exploitation is destined to be labelled as porn positive.
Over the course of the last two years however I have come to relish the role, not least because of my increasing frustration with the many profound myths that are constantly recycled by those apposed to pornography.
The article published in the Guardian on 26/10 stands as a definite guide to the confused propaganda and ideological smoke and mirrors that surrounds debate on this issue. Whilst people have very right to aggressively debate their loathing of pornography, their viewpoint is weakened to the point of impotence by continuing to spread disinformation, embellishment and lies rather then provide an argument based on facts.
Perhaps the most disturbing myth that continues to be peddled by the anti-pornography lobby is discussion of child sexual exploitation during debates on consensual adult sexual behaviour, purely in a bid to muddy the waters of the debate and highlight a subconscious link between porn and child abuse. One academic Kira Cochrane quotes, happily states, ‘I think the routine use of obviously minor children in pornography is one place it could go …’
Anyone with even a basic knowledge of the commercial pornography industry will know this to not only be blatantly untrue but also deeply offensive. The sexual exploitation of minors is viewed in the same repulsed terms within the sex industry as it is in wider society, perhaps even more so. Here is a classic example of what journalist Nick Davies would term, ‘Flat Earth News’, an untruth that continues to maintain a degree of cultural cache purely as a result of its repetition.
Whilst I tend to agree that exposure to pornographic material is becoming easier for children I would strongly suggest that this at least provides an opportunity for parents to pick up the gauntlet and engage in frank and open discussion on a subject that has all to often been seen as a cause for acute parental embarrassment.
I have for example yet to read a single outraged journalistic piece on the gay male porn industry, an area I have covered in depth. The casual observer could be forgiven for thinking that exploitation in the sex industry is only an issue for female performers. As if they are in some way unable to consent to have sex on film, whilst it’s perfectly acceptable for men to choose to do so. This illuminates a key issue, namely, the idea that anti-porn campaigners working from a feminist perspective do on occasion seem to uphold rather then challenge the patriarchal system that has historically denied women the right to free sexual expression.
In fact, if you look at the figures in Cochrane’s article it’s interesting to note the numbers of women actively engaged in watching pornography seems to be increasing rather then decreasing, suggesting that some women enjoy rather then are repulsed by frank displays of sexuality. There are at present a number of British female producers who create and distribute their own pornographic product and not once have I heard their voices represented. Without meaning to sound too much like a social theory undergraduate, surely women taking over the means of production would imply they are finally in a position to be promoted to a position of power both within the industry and wider society as a whole?
On a final note please let me offer a word of practical advice. Namely, to people like myself, forced to try and illuminate the myths presented by anti-porn campaigners, the name Andrea Dworkin tends to send us into fits of ironic giggles when brought up in any debate. Especially in light of the quote from Cochrane’s article where she suggests the modern porn scene is so profoundly rotten that even Dworkin could never have imagined the level of violent misogyny evident today.
Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of Dworkin’s work will be only to aware that she did on occasion embellish the truth, even giving evidence in court relating to the existence of snuff films and other toxic sexual transgressions captured on film that have never existed except as rumor and urban myth. A profound and challenging thinker she may have been, but also one who would happily distort reality in order to beef up the frequent gaps in her argument.
Bruce, I have admittedly not read your book, but I think that if you write a book in which you convey that “violence is treated with more tolerance by the censor than sex, despite the fact that the latter, between consenting adults, hurts no-one” you are rightly labelled as pro-porn.
Firstly I would like to defend Kira Cochrane and her article “The men who believe porn is wrong” as she does not mention anything about child exploitation taking place in pornography at the moment. Rather it is Robert Jensen who wonders where else pornography can go after bukake, sex with animals, ass-to-mouth, double penetration etcetera in a further quest to hock, excite and help their customers revel in the abuse of women and achieve orgasms. All of the above I assume you would label “frank displays of sexuality”?
I know you point out that obvious abuse of children could never happen in porn , but the fact is that it already has – be it as far as I know only twice – with Traci Lords being the most famous case. You might be correct that mainstream production companies might never willfully go down the avenue of child pornography, but there is a market for it and who knows if it is growing or not?
I do share your concern about gay pornography, be this male or female. For me personally the reason for never mentioning these forms of pornography is simply that I do not have any experience of what they are like. I do however think that all pornography has a certain dehumanizing denominator. That is why I am anti-porn. I am not anti-straight-porn! If you would like to read some more about gay porn, you can check out the blog “A Radical Profeminist”. The guy who writes it recently also recommended the following pieces by some anti-porn feminists to another member of this blog:
- the work of Christopher Kendall (his books are on Amazon.com
- the chapter titled “Communion” in Andrea Dworkin’s book Intercourse, which analyses and discusses the ethics of the work of James Baldwin.
Specifically, of Kendall’s writings:
Gay Male Pornography: An Issue Of Sex Discrimination
See also the chapter, “Sexual Objectification and Male Supremacy” in Refusing to be a Man, by John Stoltenberg
I also feel that the increasing acceptance and use of pornography by women does not arise only out of “enjoyment of frank displays of sexuality”. Pornography portrays a very limited view of human sexuality and I doubt that the women who watch it all enjoy doing it. There are a lot of stereotypes surrounding the refusal of watching pornographic material. One commonly associated with men who do so is that they are gay. I think there is plenty of women out there who accept pornography use for fear of being labelled “uncool, frigid, feminist or prude”. Besides I think one also has to take into consideration the general rise of pornography consumption amongst teenagers and be aware of the huge amount of peer pressure that teenagers can be put from their friends. For all of the above reasons, it does not surprise me that there is also a rise in pornography consumption by girls and women.
Pornography produced / directed by women is still pornography. It is still aimed at men. Just because women are “calling the shots” does not necessarily mean that the porn is less degrading or more equal. Personally I have never knowingly seen any female produced / directed porn, but I do know that people who have seen such porn did not find it to be much different from male produced porn. THis should hardly be surprising, even women made porn will have to satisfy the men (who are the market).
I think it is easy to mock or accuse someone with whom’s beliefs and arguments we disagree like you have done in your post with Andrea Dworkin. I don’t know the extent of her writings, but what I know of them from her “Letters from a War Zone” on snuff films is that there were rumoured to be films featuring the killings of women in the underground in the mid-70s. Shortly after a group of people decided to re-brand and shoot a new ending to a film originally conceived as “Slaughter”. It was finally released as “Snuff” and a new ending was added in which a woman is brutally murdered by a film crew. When the film was released it was advertised with the tagline “the film that could only be made in South America…where life is cheap!” and claimed that it depicted the real life murders women. Of course Dworkin was enraged and maybe she did believe since then that there might be films like that out there? We may know now this particular film was fantasy, but does that make it any better? And anyway, who knows what is out there?
Well, I think Mr. Barnard has a point about some antiporn feminist rhetoric that conflates porn (adult porn) that is mass-consumed with other porn (child porn) that is illegal and caters to a much smaller, perverse audience.
Regardless of the prevalence of child porn in the consumer pornography marketing or the market itself, adult porn should be distinguished from child porn. This is not to say that mainstream porn does not depict children in sex acts.
Feminist antiporn rhetoric also says, about males in particular, that use of adult pornography leads to use of child pornography, and that pornography in general includes abuse of both women and children, so watching adult pornography is impossible for an antiporn feminist.
Well, most porn does not include children. Legal porn does not include children. Most men do not watch pornography using child actors.
However, in any line-up of porn stills with titles found a popular porn site, there’s always a still or two mentioning “petite” models. Since 99.9% of porn actresses shave their genitals, the petite models, even if over 18, still look like children, making what is shown appear to be child pornography. In fact, the “barely 18″, and “teenage” porn, mainstream as MILF porn, shows women who really look like kids in high school. Sure, the actors are over 18, but the depiction? The depiction is of child porn, the same way movies like SAW depict torture of adults (at least so far).
The societal trend appears to be that anyone who’s willing to watch something shocking and containing violence will watch either child or adult actors in it. In fact, the child actors make it more entertaining for the viewer, if the theme plays off their naivete somehow.
If porn is anything violent toward women and children, then legal horror porn includes plenty of porn, in movies like the Chuckie series, Poltergeist, and The Good Son, the Exorcist, these all include children in starring roles, as possible victims of the evil person, or as perpetrators. The torture film series SAW, now in 3D, (or a movie like Hostel) feature torture acts done to people using film techniques intended to capture the pain and suffering of the victims from multiple points of view, including the perpetrators. The point is that the producers of those movies explore themes that break taboos and violate ideals of behavior. I don’t know why they do it, but why would the pornography industry be any different from Hollywood?
In the porn industry now, most models (men and women) get Brazilians, and if there’s a growing market for the “barely legal” or “petites”, then industry producers will find more petite women (or men) to place in more of those films, genitals shaved.
Another point about child pornography, and that is that pornography consumers include children. Producers of pornography want to appeal to children the same way producers of horror movies want to appeal to children.
The pornography cartoon industry follows the same trend, mirroring its non-pornography counterpart, targeting a younger audience than the demographic that enjoys horror movies.
If pornography marketers could take surveys, they would ask questions about what age group the children wanted to see in their porn. Rather than rely on that, though, porn marketers track click-streams and experiment with different kinds of dynamic content generation to build profiles of ID’d users of porn. They offer rating systems for films, and provide accounts for users that help build their profiles.
I imagine any professional pornography distribution site (regardless of who supplies their pornography) has heuristics they use to group viewers in age groups, starting with 8-11, probably, the pre-puberty group.
But do they really do that? I think Mr. Barnard would say no. I think Tomoman would say yes, myself, I bet they do whatever it takes to make money, and the question is not whether the producers really do that, it’s whether the demographic is there. If the kids are there, you bet there’s people running websites who’ll sell to the market.
The current market offers clues about its consumers habits, but not necessarily its age break-down:
* “barely legal” and “petite” porn is sold alongside the rest of the oral/anal/gangbang/genital/multi craziness.
* random clicking through porn sites can get you to pictures of children, real children, in underwear within 20 clicks. It’s called “nonnude”.
SEE: http://www.ehow.com/how_2140124_report-child-porn-distribution.html
for how to report such sites.
* web porn includes cartoons, the characters appear to be children. All anime look like children, but some porn cartoons are obviously intending to show anime children.
* There are porn web comics showing small children with large penises having sex with grown women. Is it designed to encourage child prostitution to women? I doubt it.
The final clue is that the market for porn includes children.
Here in the US, the DOJ has supposedly revised their definition of child porn to include any porn that appears to depict children in sex acts, but they obviously don’t spend much time on enforcement.
It is true that the antiporn feminist rhetoric (patriarchy-dominance-violence-rape) seems directed at blaming men while trying to sound smart, as if they speak to entertain themselves by humiliating any random man who hears, sees, or reads them. I think their rhetoric hurts their chances of being heard. I have not read Andrea Dworkin, but the name comes up so much I suppose I could grit my teeth and try reading her work. Maybe someday.
On the other hand, “pornography exploits women and children” is a truth, not a mantra. Pornography producers do exploit women and children. Pornography producers exploit the ideas of women and children, the actors who portray them, and certainly any consumers who are them. Whether the consumers enjoy it or not, they learn that the acts displayed in the pornography are normal, or even expected of them, and that is exploitation.
“Pornography exploits women and children” seems to be true.
It might be helpful to capture that knowledge in a larger frame of capitalism-driven entertainment media, including portrayals of sex and violence involving men, women, and children. The entertainment industry as a whole is following the pornography industry, toward more graphic and gratuitous displays involving taboo-breaking subjects.
Importantly, major corporations are selling pornography (General Motors, Comcast), and are willing to shape public opinion (e.g., late-night pay TV spots on the joys of street prostitution) to support their market share.
If I could offer a suggestion. Debating the morals or feminist sensitivities held by different providers of pornography (or horror films, or shows like “24″) makes consumers of entertainment defend their own habits, their own pleasures. Yes, there are differences between those pleasures, but they could be sorted out later. A slight change in emphasis, toward arguments about the variety of content out there, while allowing distinctions between the different kinds, could make progress in defeating any type of entertainment media that we can all agree should be “disappeared”.
After we disappear the worst of the pornography, we can put the rest of the pornography on trial, working our way backward. Right now, even the worst depictions of pornographic child exploitation are ignored so long as they do not actually involve harm to children.
Of course, if I had my preference, I would disappear all earnings-driven recorded entertainment, and then debate whatever is left afterward.
I’ve been watching porn on and off for a very long-time and have been constantly fighting and trying to resist the urge to watch.
Recently, I’ve been caught watching porn at work and got into major trouble, lost my job etc etc. It took such a drastic reaction for me to realise what trouble I’m really in. For years I’ve belittled it in my head, telling myself that I can stop whenever I want to, only now as I’ve tried to stop watching have I realised how hard it is!
I’m married and from the start intimacy has always been a problem for my wife. I’ve always been deprived of affection from her and it’s something that she struggles with which she admits. Sex is also difficult as initally she used to have a lot of medical complications and then when that settled down, she quickly fell pregnant and for the first year of my daughter’s life, we had sex maybe 4 times. 4 TIMES in 12mths!
Often I would turn to porn for self-satisfaction and gratification. I used to think, I have needs, there not being met with my wife, what else can I do?
Our sex life has always been a stop-start affair. I don’t think me watching porn is linked to it. There have been times when we’ve had a healthy sex life and I haven’t watched porn for long periods, but then when it all dies down again, when my wife decides she’s not in the mood for whatever reason – I quickly turn back to porn.
One thing that porn has definitely contributed to is my image of women and what I want in them. I always watch busty women, engaged in threesomes with other girls – as it’s a fantasy that I’ll never have in real life. It’s totally wrong and inappropriate, but I can’t get rid of those thoughts and images and keep wanting to watch it.
I’ve now been porn-free for 3mths, my sex-life is again on the wane and I’m fighting hard to resist the urges. This website has come in a nick of time as I can vent and explain my reasons for watching porn anonymously, just to get things off my chest. Obviously this has never been discussed with anyone before.
Sorry if I have been too open, but I welcome any comments or suggestions. Before you all condemn me, I’m trying to change and trying to resist and get rid of this addiction!
Thanks for reading.
I unreservedly empathise with your situation, one not all that different to mine. I also ‘use’, and continue to use, pornography for similar reasons, and like you, I assume, dearly love my partner.
However, I refuse to be demonised if I choose to watch content which is not demeaning and simply displays the act of sex. I would not, and will never, ‘consume’ pornography that is clearly misogynistic etc. Differences in libido between partners make the whole issue problematic. Why is someone fundamentally dammed for viewing such content to satisfy an equal great joy in life, if their partner for medical reasons finds it very difficult to be sexual?
I would never leave my partner over this undeniable problem between us, but I’d like the ‘nay Sayers’ to consider how vexed the issue of males ‘consuming’ pornography can be.
I unreservedly empathise with your situation, one not all that different to mine. I also ‘use’, and continue to use, pornography for similar reasons, and like you, I assume, dearly love my partner.
However, I refuse to be demonised if I choose to watch content which is not demeaning and simply displays the act of sex. I would not, and will never, ‘consume’ pornography that is clearly misogynistic etc. Differences in libido between partners make the whole issue problematic. Why is someone fundamentally dammed for viewing such content to satisfy an equal great joy in life, if their partner for medical reasons finds it very difficult to be sexual?
I would never leave my partner over this undeniable problem between us, but I’d like the ‘nay Sayers’ to consider how vexed the issue of males ‘consuming’ pornography can be.
Sorry,this is a long post but I think it’s an important issue
I can talk about this situation from the woman’s point of view. Having experienced rape, sexual assault, and physical problems caused by the pill from the age of about 14-15, I had been left physically and emotionally traumatised by male sexuality from the very beginning – and it then just carried on. I experienced bad relationship abuse because i was considered an unfit partner, and blamed for having problems with intimacy, trust, libido, etc. Part of the abuse took the form of emotional withdrawal – I don’t know whether into porn, I do know of affairs, but the worst part about it was being shut out – it felt like a punishment. Over the years, as I’ve recovered from this abuse, I’ve come to take issue with much of the accepted wisdom about sex.
There seems to be a universally accepted belief that men need sex, men are entitled to sex, and if they can’t get it from their partners they have the right to do anything they like to get it – ranging through rape, porn, affairs, or bullying their partner into submission. Lack of sexual response from a partner is often used (and accepted) as an excuse for all kinds of a cruelty and neglect. This attitude is at the core of a great deal of domestic abuse and sexual violence, (and even plain old relationship dysfunction) and is very, very commonly held amongst ordinary men. And it’s wrong. Some men go their whole lives without sex – willingly – and find satisfaction elsewhere; and some men indulge all of their sexual desires and ‘needs’ and never feel satisfied. There are happy celibate marriages, and unhappy sexually active marriages. It seems to me that the attitude you take to sex is more important than whether you’re having it or not, in determining whether you needs are satisfied.
Women aren’t in relationships with men to satisfy that man’s physical needs, and if that’s the reason you have relationships then they’re always going to be a failure. If we’re lucky we end up in relationships where a couple’s needs are taken care of, but many relationships arent’ perfect in this area and are still considered successful. Many people experience sexual frustration and rejection but are loyal and loving to their partners anyway, and certainly would never use it as an excuse for indulging in the the abuse of others by using porn.
These things go both ways – but are usually perceived as being something men suffer more than women. I went through many periods in my relationship where I felt sexually rejected, unloved, physically frustrated and emotionally alone, but somehow all we ever talked about was him wanting more sex. I thought that if my partner could just stop talking about sex and start talking about me, and the relationship, and how we might work together to help me get over my past, then the sex would follow – it might take a while but with love, care, understanding, patience our physical relationship would develop through love and trust, and not just so he would stop shouting at me (or not speaking to me at all). But I’ve never met a man who could understand that by behaving in a different way and giving those things, they could get exactly what they say they want – ie a sexual relationship. Issues of immediate gratification always swept it all aside. You end up thinking…. hmmm, is it really sex they want or is it being obeyed, and having sex on their own terms, that they’re after?
I was terrified of sex and men because of my early experiences, and many women and girls feel a similar sense of menace regarding male sexuality – it seems a dark beast to us. It is often fear that has been caused by male violence, and physical problems caused by male intervention into women’s bodies that causes the ‘intimacy’ issues that are talked about, and they can only be overcome by men restoring trust and making it clear they are no longer prepared to put sexual gratification above the emotional and physical wellbeing of women – be it their partner or anyone else. There’s a breach of trust between men and women around sex, and men need to heal it by doing all they can to undo the damage – the very least of which would be refusal to use porn, including the so-called harmless variety.
Even if it’s necessary to masturbate for relief (which I have done myself – for these situations are rarely a one way street), it isn’t necessary to do it to porn. You can never know what is happening behind the camera in ‘simply displaying the act of sex’, and can’t guarantee that no-one is abused in the making of it, or predict the knock on effects of real sexual violence in wider society that porn is known to cause. But besides this, doing it to porn is doing it to (not with) a woman who cant say no. This perpetuates the destructive conditioning that women should always be sexually available, and if they’re not it’s something wrong with them and not with the expectations of the man. It can only deepen the misunderstandings between partners who have this sort of problem. It’s simply men seeking out women in circumstances where they retain complete control, when they perceive their partner to have ‘taken’ their control away from them. Although the truth is that porn use is an indicator of a man’s loss of control over himself; and fantasised control over other women can end up validating feelings he might hold against his partner – (eg, other women will do this for their man, why not mine?).
I think we need a proper dialogue about this – which doesn’t begin with the unquestioned assumption that men are slaves to their sexuality and must get off, whatever the circumstances. Why are so many men prepared to acquiesce in this, and why don’t they want to reassert their humanity in regard to sex, but seem content to paint themselves as beasts who must rut, whatever the effects it has on those around them? I must actually think more highly of men than they do of themselves – because I think men are better than that, and can be human as well as animal. But they need to look at their own sexuality very hard indeed, and decide whether they want to come out of the swamp.
Having said that, I think the men who set up this site are doing just that, and that gives me hope.
I can not put into words how much I feel sorry for the horrific experiences you have been through and the hatred I have for men who commit such acts, thankfully, my partner has not experienced such horror through her life.
As a thinking human being, I am very rational when it comes to complex issues. However, I find it frankly insulting if certain people imply all males feel ‘power’ is being taken from them if a partner is not very sexual. To reiterate, I can’t stand patriarchal macho males who dominate their partners and purely objectify women. All couples situations are different, and the reasons behind why one person in a relationship is not very sexual can be a lot more complex than some of the points being made.
Thanks for this website. It’s good to talk about these things. It’s the fact that there are so many people that defend porn that makes me question it’s value. If people aren’t even willing to talk about what could go wrong, then something is going wrong.
And plus, those horrible producers. They just sit back in a stack of money and laugh at everyone. That thought alone puts me off porn.
I recently had a difficult discussion with my husband about our sex life and so have been thinking about the effect of porn on relationships a lot recently. My conclusions relate to the men I have been in relationships with who fall into two categories:
1) Non consumers of porn
2) Consumers of hardcore porn
In my experience, regular use of hardcore porn seems to desensitise men to women’s sexual responses. Most internet porn doesn’t even pretend to be about what women enjoy. The sex that consumers of this porn engage in is about technique and “getting off”. Out of necessity, I have been forced to counter things that are the norm in porn, in real life. For example, painful and uncomfortable things do not turn me on. They demean me and you know what? You get off seeing women in pain and they demean you too.
The non-porn consumers have been an entirely different story. In my experience, these men are more in tune, responsive and focused when it comes to sex. And wow, that can lead to some truly amazing stuff. In the two relationships I had with men who didn’t watch porn, I never said no to sex. If I had, I would have been punishing myself.
So in my view, this site is pro-sex. And that would make me a fan.
I remember crawling through a gap under a door into an abandoned house that had been used by somebody, sometime, as a dump for newspapers and magazines. Among them were some porn mags and what I saw in them hooked me instantly. I was six or seven. Since then I have sought pornography, off and on, at once with embarrassment and acute excitement. I never found anything wrong with it until I realised that it was true: a picture of a woman with her legs spread for the purpose of exciting me to orgasm is objectifying that woman. In what other way is there to view that woman except as a sexual object? I don’t know her. I’m not intimate with her. For me she exists only as a vagina there to be taken advantage of. That is the purpose of the photo and its reason for being – in addition, of course, to the exchange of money being a condition of it being in my possession, which, I am glad to say, has very rarely been the case.
I struggle with an addiction. It’s too easy. It’s too available. I am married to the sweetest girl on the planet, the only girl with who I have ever been able to build an intimate relationship – despite the negative forces (I often think) that my interest in porn invites into our lives. For the sake of our children, a boy and a girl, I hope I have the strength to beat them.
I respect her. I must respect myself.
Your realisation is impressive and your story has warmed my heart. I believe you have the stength to beat it, good luck!
I find porn de-sensitising and bad for human relations. It’s difficult to avoid blurring of the porn world with one’s own sex-life.
Any tips on resisting the urge to dial it up? I remind myself that every click benefits the website and perpetuates the harm being done to us all. But it doesn’t seem to be enough.
I support this project. Well done.
A reply for the writer of ‘venting’ –
As I read your post I am left wondering what needs your wife has? You say that your wife has difficulty with being intimate but I wonder if it is you who has the difficult with intimacy? Porn allows you to escape any emotional contact with a real woman and your become used to a detached kind of sexual activity that is solitary and self-focussed. I would suggest to you that the fact that your love life has been a stop-start affair has everything to do with your involvement with porn.
There are books you can read that might help – the Porn Trap for example – and I do suggest that you both go to counselling. It would be the way that you could demonstrate that you are genuinely taking responsibility for your own actions and not attributing your involvement with porn to your wife.
I wish you all the best
there’s a joke about a bull that refused to mount cows; a situation that worried the farmer. so our farmer seeks advice with a fellow farmer who tells our farmer to get a couple of porn movies to stimulate the beast. our farmer follows the advice, gets the movies and shows them regularly to the bull. 3 months later the cows did not bear any calves; which worried our farmer further. so he decides to monitor the bulls behavior. so after watching the movie the bull mounts the nearest cow, does the thing and at the end withdraws to ejaculate on the cows face.
I laughed when I heard that joke the first time but I ended up finding a morale behind it which I could sum up as follows: at a time when some self-prclaimed experts remind us that watching porn movies is meant to spice up our intimate lives the reality is at the absolute opposite of that. porn only increases loneliness and sometimes depression amongst men. I do not believe the lies that are told about men through porn.
Porn is dangerous for adults. it is more dangerous for youngsters with the proliferation of internet and satellite television. It is dangerous to present as ‘normal’ some behaviours and attitudes that are harmful. and congrats for the site!
Thank you so much for this project, it gives me hope for our generation and the next ones. Keep going your own way, I’m impressed by the quality of your answers to Prince Queer and co. and I share your pro-sex arguments since my first relationship : never watched a porn (which is quite rare as Im 28) but always had to deal with partners who did at a certain point of their life. As a young woman I couldn’t participate that much to your project but if ever you want to try to do something in french, I ll be glad to help you. I ve already spammed my friends in Paris with your website
Excellent website. It’s a great way of educating men about the destructive effects of porn, which are not obvious until someone points it out to you.
I think the Anti Porn Men Project website really needs a forum though. Having discussions via article comments doesn’t cut it.
I totally agree with you!
OMG i almost cried when i found out about this website! Everyone, even my boyfriend, who is pretty much a feminist, says that All MEN use pornography. Good Lord, to find a website DEDICATED to anti porn, and founded by MEN is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!! There is still hope! Thankyou!
Hi,
I have been reading quite a few articles from this site and find them very useful. I have been struggling with a Porn “habit/obsession” from as long as 15 years. i do feel it has affected me work wise as well as probaly relationship wise.
initially i feel that i depended on porn for my sex education, as in our quite repressed culture, these things are not discussed. it probably helped me to add a little variety to my sex life as well.
I am thinking of oral sex or fantasizing.
however I dont like the way porn has taken over my life now.
I probably do objectify women, but dont women do that as well?
anyway thanks a lot for the discussion on these pages as i feel it has helped me to keep off porn for the last 2 weeks.
I just wanted to clarify; is reading “erotic stories ” from websites like literotica have the same effect as watching porn.
i personally feel it may be a slippery slope from this to watching porn.
i found the advise from someone on the website about masturbating without using porn very useful.
I have just discovered your project and for the first time in ages feel hopeful. I have a 21 yr old son that I fear is wasting his life thanks to his viewing and surfing habits. For 8 yrs it has dominated my life, when i first discovered the horrors of the interet and daily papers!
I couldn’t and still can’t believe what we have done to a whole generation of kids. I feel it’s to late for them, but maybe the next one can benefit. Maybe one day you will be able to buy a tv with free view that requires you to opt ‘in’ to the porn, rather than ‘out’.
I admire and respect men involved with this project. Oh to meet one!!
I am grateful to have found this place, especially in such a difficult time of my life. I am very anti-porn and pro-sex. Despite a good and ever increasing sex-life with my husband (dating 8 years, married 2 months), I learn today that he has been using porn behind my back. He said he was anti-porn… and I believed him. I was starting to feel a bit crazy about my strong feelings against porn and the damage it does, but here, I’m not alone. Here, I got to read some of the arguments I’ve made over and over again against porn, but this time the cases were being made by others who understand. I have never met anyone who is anti-porn. I’ve lost friends because I wouldn’t watch porn with them or go to strip clubs. I very well may get divorced because of lies involving porn. I needed this haven of sanity and debates. I thank you all because I really need this right now.
Again, I must ask that if all kinds of porn, even those that do not employ actual “actresses” are supposedly harmful to society’s image on women. How are we, and by we I’m referring to those who are socially inept are supposed to gain sexual and emotional satisfaction/release.
Are you seriously saying that one can go the rest of there natural born lives without releasing sexual thoughts. I mean, why should I as a socially awkward, relatively unattractive (due to mandibular asymmetry and crooked bottom teeth), shallow 18 year old male have to interact with women to gain for “sex”. And I’m pretty sure there are plenty of others in the same position I’m in. For ex. I mean due to the fact that I most probably lack the emotional maturity and the relevant experience to foster a relationship at my current age (as I’ve never had a girlfriend in H.S, few female friends and still a virgin), I won’t be able to develop a relationship through my young-adulthood, by the time I’m 28 and have never had a girlfriend, I would know nothing of kissing, sex, going out, how to deal with arguments, buying presents, being spontaneous etc. A woman at my future age is not going to accept that. And I’ll probably be branded as some weirdo creep also.
I will concede the the “live” pornographic industry has the capability for potential abuse and there is room for more oversight and regulation.
Which is why I ask what is wrong about eroge and h-anime? Though a large amount of Animated pornography is quite violent and fetishistic, I do not believe all of them are pornographic.
(This is a response to your claim that fictional porn is “degrading to women”) For example, most Eroges (the well written ones) are hardly about sex. They just happen to show sex scenes, most of the time it obvious that they force in the scenes for sales(not always the case, for example, in Ef- a fairy tale of the two, it is tastefully used to show the consummation of a young couple’s relationship).The only time I recall these good games to have somewhat disturbing scenes, such as rape, are to elicit a negative( and that means anger,sadness) emotional reaction from the reader because of the attachment you would have developed to the heroine. For describe it as degrading (so in this case it could fall under the category of tasteful pornography/erotica, or not pornography then). Albeit, there is a slight escapist edge to these Eroge as with most anime and games (usually in the form of the female persuing the male, therefore eliminating any fear of rejection on the viewer/player who is immersed in the role of the Main Protag, though this is only for the romance heave Moeges). Though it is hardly a harmful outlet for the socially awkward men who play this stuff. Hope I don’t seem like I’m trolling, its just that I really am quite obsessed with this stuff (even though I’m Chinese, guess I’m just a stupid Weaboo) and I really don’t want to see my hobby slandered.
An addendum to clarify the terms I have mentioned. Visual Novels, are basically Choose Your Own Adventure Books ,except in digital from with High-production values (such as voice acting from name seiyuus [VAs] working under pseudonyms, BGM, Orchestral Soundtrack, and pictures). VNs could fall under two categories, Eroge (Ero-Game) or Galge (Gal-Game). The former will have erotic content while the latter will only show “fanservice” or what you would see in typical rom-com anime (for ex. Clannad is a galge, not a eroge). Most non- erotic dating sims such as Love Plus (for the DS) also falls under the term Galge.
Eroge also falls under several specific genre.
Nukige, is basically just masturbatory fodder and with paper thin plots to justify the scenes one would see on the screen. Could range from vanilla sex-scenes, to rape, to various fetishes (such as bondage, tentacles, incest, incest rape) and some guro stuff.
Nakige, (deriving its name from the portmanteau crying-game) is usually what gets the most praise from the connoisseurs of the industry (and is usually what gets translated and adapted into Anime). These games would have extensive characterization and intricate plot. Will usually make a person cry, but ends on a positive note. (Examples would be Ef- A Fairy tale of the Two, Kanon, AIR, Kimi Ga Nozumu Eien [aka. The Eternity you Desire/ Rumbling Hearts {for the western adaptation]])Usually deals with issues about death, separation etc.
The last genre, is the utsuge (or depressing game), usually makes one cry or depressed and ends on a similarly depressing note. Also used to describe some games in the Nakige genre. In my experience, most Utsuge would use rape as a plot device to either characterize or create sympathy for a particular character.Death is also not uncommon in these games for both male and female characters. For example, Muv Luv Alternative can be considered an Utsuge for all the depressing things that happens in the middle of a military-political sci-fi drama where Earth is being invaded by aliens.
I felt a similar way about Hentai and porn and felt I had little to no chance of meeting a lady who would like me. I felt being really intellectual put people off and a didn’t think I held a candle to the “He-gods” portrayed as the perfect male.
I lost my virginity at 34 (and started abusing porn since age 13). Prior to that I felt the same as you, that any who thought I was a virgin would think I was a freak…so I lied about everything to do with my sexual experiences. Those lies cost me that relationship! It was clear to the lady that my demands had been solely crafted by porn. After we broke up I told her the truth and yeah she wasn’t to happy, who would be. If I had been honest it would not have been a problem but ego and male sexual pride got the better of me.
So a few things…
1) I sought out extremely hardcore hentai as it was fairly easy to just about anything you wanted and everyone in it is pretty…as opposed to porn with real participants. Don’t kid yourself that hentai isn’t porn, in fact its usually harder than anything legal or iillegal in real life.
2) Porn in general completely messed up my ability to enjoy sex with a real woman.
3) Real feelings of intimacy and caring are ongoing and feel great. sexual orgasm is brief.
4) There is a woman or women out there for you. They may not be obvious and sometimes you might ignore them while looking for some fantasy girl that doesnt exist.
5) this may seem callous or harsh however you could consider some reconstructive surgery. It is quite possible in this day and age to do so. Don’t feel you are a prisoner of your body.
6) It’s tough, really tough to give up porn. Better to use your imagination. No one is saying don’t release sexual tension, thats harmful as well.
On a final note, I still struggle with the porn/pot addiction but thanks to a good therapist and an ex-girlfriend who has stuck by me as a friend for 2 years after our relationship officially ended. But I appeal to you to stop intellectually justifying porn use to yourself. Real girls don’t act like the girls in h-manga. Don’t end up like me, I lost decades of practice with real girls. Have a look at dating sites, heck just talk to geeky girls and be realistic the girls you aim to date. I missed many opportunities because I was subconsciously looking for girls that fitted into the bizarre stereotypes put forward by porn (slutty yet clean…yeah right). Embarrassment, shame, guilt, fear of the unknown are all part of getting used to romance with a real woman but in the end I have found the rewards worth it.
Don’t give up, dress well, shower and take pride in yourself and realise that it is hard work finding love but that makes it some much more worthwhile than a 2D/3D image. Talk to real women and listen to them, you would surprised what you can find out.
Good luck
A very intelligent reply, however, my main point may have been derailed by my personal rant at the top. My point was that there are pornography that isn’t bad (aka. Plot with Porn *Look that up on tvtropes.org). I would seriously recommend some of the officially localized eroges such as Kana (which was very sad for me, I was in tears towards the end of the story, and still teared up weeks later) and Yume Miru Kusuri. There are definetely some good fan-translated ones, but after the recent “RapePlay-Gate”, VN publishers issued several Cease and Desist notices to several Fan TL group so I’d rather not draw unnecessary attention to those translations of those good story-heavy Eroge.
On the note that cosmetic surgery can help, as a college student, both my parents and I lack the funds. When I graduate and begin work, hopefully as an accountant, I wouldn’t be able to make enough money till I’ve gone past my prime. Basically I’ll be like you and 35 by the time I could afford to fix the stuff. And again, I do believe that part of the problem is that I am a ridiculously shallow person, there’s really no hiding that fact.
I know lots of men who hide the fact that they watch porn from their GFs. But, frankly, I don’t know a single male that does not, at least occasionally, watch porn. Men have different physiological responses to porn then women (lots of research shows this); its no wonder why women don’t understand why men watch it.
I’m suspicious of the men on this forum claiming not to like watching porn…so you see a picture or video of a attractive girl having sex and…you don’t like it? what? Really?
I can understand being bothered about the abuse and violence in the industry; I definitely am. But I find pictures of naked women really arousing. I am glad that some porn features happy healthy looking girls that claim to be exhibitionists, for example, AbbyWinters.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbywinters.com
We have two issues here that are being confused:
1) the porn industry is generally morally corrupt. This problem can be potentially, at least partially, addressed (like with sites like abby winters).
2) guys get turned on by pictures naked women! That’s a fact of life that some women refuse to accept. There are not many differences between men and women but sexuality is one of them. If you don’t understand why your BF watches porn, its okay! He does not understand why you don’t!
Lets agree on that and move on to more important things like for example passing laws to regulate the porn industry.
The word “Anti-porn” may confuses these two issues: guys can be concerned the exploitation of women while still being turned on by porn. I really hope so, because I do not know of a man that is not turned on by porn.
You say you are suspicious of men on this forum claiming not to like watching porn…“so you see a picture or video of a attractive girl having sex and…you don’t like it? what? Really?” You sound an intelligent man but I am sure you have misinterpreted (deliberately?) their opinions.
Your point that “guys get turned on by of pictures naked women! That’s a fact of life that some women refuse to accept. There are not many differences between men and women but sexuality is one of them. If you don’t understand why your BF watches porn, its okay! He does not understand why you don’t!”
You then say “Lets agree on that and move on to more important things like for example passing laws to regulate the porn industry.”
Well, yes, I do agree on that, but I also think it is a very important point, not to be dismissed so lightly. The men on this forum like watching naked women as much as any red blooded male and they freely state that watching porn is sexually stimulating for them. However they are also mature and sensitive human beings who actually like real women in the real world. Because they like real women they don’t dismiss our feelings on the subject. I have no doubt they make wonderful lovers.
I do understand why some men secretly look at porn, masturbate, and not regard themselves as in any way being unfaithful to their partner. However, please could men also understand that lots of women do regard this behaviour as being unfaithful, it wounds them deeply and these wounds do not heal easily. Any man in a serious relationship needs to realise this, and I suspect a lot of men do, but they just don’t care.
Porn makes sex meaningless.
I sincerely applaud this great movement aimed towards making this world a sexually pure and blissful place.
Hi and thank you so much for creating a site like this! It’s so much needed.
Myself being trapped in the seemingly hopeless never-ending cycle of p.addiction, and now been working the last couple of years recovering from this crap. I’m so much aware of the harm the p.industry is doing to us humans, to the society. Now I need to completely rebuild both my mentality and my sexuality, which have become totally warped beause of my destructive p use! Let us all work towards a p regulated society, and let’s hope that there will be positive politcal will from our governments to actually DO something with the madness! The p industry simply cant’t continue ravaging freely like they are doing now. Enough is enough!
Again thank you for creating this place!
Jake
wow, jake, as a girl who knows so many guys that watch porn as part of their daily routine and are blind to the harm it can cause them and the women around them as well as those in the films, it is really encouraging to hear your understanding of the degradation of it and your determination to quit!
good luck to you!
Thank you Amy. I’m very determined to get porn completely out f my life, but I also understand that just quiting porn is not the ultimate answers to my problems. There have to be a committment as well, to destroy all bad habits, and simply start living! You know, get healthy, passionate hobbies, and hang out with supportive and good friends. Simply learn how to accept and take personal responsibility in general! My porn addiction kept me stuck in a cycle where none of these really played an important role in my life, I was blind by the illusion that as long as I had porn to escape into, then all my problems, pains, struggles and difficulties didn’t matter, like they didn’t exist! Paradoxically my porn use only reinforced my pain, each time, whch in turn only reinforced my desire to continue using porn. It was a vicious cycle, and I felt hoplessly stuck. Being a porn addict is like being trapped in unhealthy adolescence, never really stepping full maturity!
I’m now soon 26, never been in any relationships, and hardly have any good female friendships. I try not to let my self pitying, my past failures, and worries about potential future failures get the hold of me. I try as good as I can to live in the moment, constantly working on becoming a better man, one day at a time! And I’m glad to know that my insight hopefully can help other people out of the destructive cycle I once were indulged in!
Oh and yeah… I’ve come to the conclusion that there doesn’t exist any healthy moderate use of porn either. Porn is selfishly lusting over another human being, no matter how soft it is. No fully grown man can claim to have a well developed emotional maturity, if he is indulged with porn, not even “moderate” use. This is my belief anyway!
Sorry for my rambling, just some thoughts popping up, and good to write them down!
Jake
Hello everybody,
I’m Dennis from Germany. At first I have to learn something about this Site.
Dennis
Hallo!
I read many of the articles on your site (not all) and I think you’re doing very important work for all the people who suffer from a some-kind mislead image of sex in our society.
But there are two things, I don’t agree with yet – I hope you can convince me!
1. the articles say that mainstream porn is always or mostly humiliating for the female actors, but: in my opinion the women in porn are always acting enjoying it – that’s their job. So can something be humiliating when you’re enjoying it? so the only problem in my opinion is the difference between porn actors and real women…
2. you say that porn industry somehow invented new types of showing sex, like ATM, DP,… and that men didn’t want to see that but were convinced by the industry. But nowadays with the internet, you can find and watch exactly what you’re looking for – and if men wanted to see more “girlfriend”-sex they would look for it wouldn’t they?
thank you for answering me in spite of my bad English!
Kevin, you answered your own question. How can you know the female actors are enjoying themselves if they are being paid to act? Putting a smile on while they’re being degraded is their job. That doesn’t mean they actually enjoy what’s going on – they need the money. The problem is not that porn actors and “real women” are different, it is that men expect girlfriends and wives to act like porn actors. Even if they don’t put that expectation on women they know, there is something wrong with having a desire to degrade women or desiring them to do things they are uncomfortable with.
As for 2.), I don’t understand what you are asking.
Kevin, as to your question nr. 2 I think there are various reasons:
- Some men obviously get off on degradation of women.
- Out of our five senses, porn only caters to one and a half. (Primarily sight, with some crappy sound.) Since porn use also desensitizes, that means that you crave ever more explicit and extreme visualisations, often including visual props like abnormal body parts and bodily fluids. The result: ass-to-mouth and such stuff that normally is a turn-off in real life.
But whether the porn offered really is what people want is a good question. Of course, when it comes to commercially sold porn, there is of course also a market that wants those kinds of porn. (Although it might be limited to a rather narrow section of fetishists.)
But the free online porn? It would be extremely interesting to see a survey about what people actually think about the porn they get / view. I myself often find myself very critical of the porn you can find online, not just ethically, but also æsthethically.
With the northern hemisphere now experiencing spring, I am reminded that I’m always appalled at the lack of something as natural as nature in porn. The biggest taboo in porn seems to be depicting a romantic picnic in a forest or meadow, followed by some missionary sex in the grass!
And I don’t think that’s because most porn users are having this kind of sex all the time. Perhaps it’s because it would remind us too sadly about what we’re missing?